Diffrentiate Between ACTIVE DEVICE and PASSIVE DEVICE...

[webscatter]

I remain and hold n ang diode ay Active....

ito n lng....Tanggalin natin ang epoxy or plastic package nito to expose the P-N junction construction.........

expose natin s LAMBDA..........then u will see ano reaction ng diode....



kaya nga nadevelop ang PHOTO-DIODE....


Then LEDs, GUNN, PIN, Avalanche, ILDs, etc....so many more pa...kung paglaruin ang construction ng PN jucntion diode....

it's clear n active talga.....


I wonder why..."some" current trends....they just throw the diode to just....a PASSIVE ...thing....

Masyado nang ini-snub n ang diode ...na inilagay n lng sa passive....as claimed....


I believe, a legit. ORG na makapagpatunay nito ay ang IEC .......... International ElectroTechnical Commission

or yung JEDEC....

[webscatter]

rdpzycho.... i like u nick....hehhehe


parang psychologist....


hwag mo kong awayin ha....

Titigil ako sa stand until makita ko n ang diode ....is passive nga...support your stand kung passive nga....


but parang malabong passive...   heheheh

[tony]

nowadays? Art of Electronics was published in 1989. Electronics Engineers' Handbook was published in 1975. Boylestad's book was first published in 1992, IIRC.

BTW, I was never able to find diode as active in a quick search of Boylestad's book. I may have skipped it by just typing on Acrobat's search.

Wyatt Jr., John L.; Chua, Leon O.; Gannett, Joel W.; Göknar, Izzet C.; Green, Douglas N. (January 1981). "Energy Concepts in the State-Space Theory of Nonlinear n-Ports: Part I—Passivity". IEEE Transactions on Circuits and Systems CAS-28 (1): 48–61.

published 1981. it was accepted as an IEEE Transaction, hence, this was criticized by their peers that time.


let us first define passivity and activity to get a clearer picture. medyo mahirap kasi kung by comparison lang.

if we can quote formal definitions and not just our opinions then we can really get a clearer picture of what will be active and passive.

in transformer hysteresis, hence there is loss. to drive back the magnetic curve, a certain amount of magnetic field is needed, the core's coercivity. it may be argued that it's not a threshold to drive the transformer to conduct forward current, but it's a threshold needed to drive the transformer back, and we're not using transformers to be driven only in one direction.

nowhere near a diode.....analogy doesn't follow.....transformer is passive...

[zer0w1ng]

From the link given by rdp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passivity_(engineering) , the definition of passive component is:
"A passive component, depending on field, may be either a component that consumes (but does not produce) energy, or a component that is incapable of power gain."

Resistors, capacitors, inductors and transformers are *NOT* capable of power gain.

Does the common DIODE capable of power gain?

If we could quote other *VALID* references of what PASSIVITY really means, maybe we could consider it as an active device.

[rdpzycho]

rdpzycho.... i like u nick....hehhehe


parang psychologist....


hwag mo kong awayin ha....

Titigil ako sa stand until makita ko n ang diode ....is passive nga...support your stand kung passive nga....


but parang malabong passive...   heheheh

I already quoted references sir. Art of Electronics was even considered as the Electronics Bible by some people.

and from Electronics Engineers' Handbook:

Any element which receives energy from some source other than a signal generator is an active element.

nowhere near a diode.....analogy doesn't follow.....transformer is passive...

what would make it different? we are also passing through a threshold called the core's coercivity. don't pass through it and the transformer will saturate, the transformer will no longer what it's supposed to do. or was it just because the diode's threshold is unilateral and block it the other way around? how about zeners?

now, define the difference of their thresholds. what was only established was the difference of RLC and diodes in their linearity. transformers are also non-linear as we can see an S-curve in its hysteresis path.

RLC's will be ideally linear, Diodes will be non-linear, that was established. but what's not established is a clear definition of what would be Active and what would be Passive. there's a slight flaw in the reasoning as we are only establishing Linearity, not Passivity which wasn't clearly established.

as what sir zerowing said, if we can quote other references, published, that would define passivity, it would be better. I already looked through my books, and only Art of Electronics and Electronics Engineers' Handbook have a definition of passivity, Boylestad didn't discuss passivity. as I already said, I also once believed that diodes are active, we're just looking for facts here.

[tony]

I also once believed that diodes are active, we're just looking for facts here.

i still do...

Boylestad didn't discuss passivity.

cause he had no reason to....

me, i would rather understand how each device works rather that whack my brains out trying to figure out if it is passive or active......there are better things to consider....

[rdpzycho]

I remain and hold n ang diode ay Active....

ito n lng....Tanggalin natin ang epoxy or plastic package nito to expose the P-N junction construction.........

expose natin s LAMBDA..........then u will see ano reaction ng diode....



kaya nga nadevelop ang PHOTO-DIODE....

Photodiodes will be active sir as it requires additional input, light. just as Light Dependent Resistors which are also semiconductors.

[rdpzycho]

me, i would rather understand how each device works rather that whack my brains out trying to figure out if it is passive or active......there are better things to consider....

I also stated that and would agree.

[tony]

transformers are *NOT* capable of power gain

oh yes, they do, but most of the time it is negative gain, primary losses are culprit......but i would rather call it power transformation....

[tony]

 

I also stated that and would agree.

good man.....

[rdpzycho]

To ALL ECEs who knew that...

LOGIC ICs started from Diode logic...

DTL+RTL becomes TTL logic plus dagdagan p ntin ng TOTEM POLE Output....Standard TTL na

DTL OR + RTL becomes TTL NOR

DTL AND + RTL becomes TTL NAND

The Foundation of Standard TTL or 7400's started from this LOGIC...

The point here DIODE is clearly an ACTIVE Device....

would the diode logic require power or voltage source?

I still use diode logic, mostly for OR operations.

"a diode replicates a mechanical diode or a freewheeling hub in a bike."

Diode.....Alteration occurs on Current variation....
With respect to current flow...
PASS DC, BLOCK AC     Id=Is x Exponential value  (Is=Saturation Current)

mechanical switch won't replicate a diode, it will simply pass the signal if ON without any alteration, only its drop.

and switches are considered passive and nonlinear, http://www.cs.utah.edu/~jmh/Papers/Colton_WHC05.pdf

[zer0w1ng]

oh yes, they do, but most of the time it is negative gain, primary losses are culprit......but i would rather call it power transformation....

I agree with you, negative gain is power LOSS.
Thus, you just confirmed that diodes are *REALLY* passive.

Same as resistors, capacitors, inductors and transformers.
They are incapable of power gain thus considered as PASSIVE.

[tony]

I agree with you, negative gain is power LOSS.
Thus, you just confirmed that diodes are *REALLY* passive.

did I? don't think so.....

[rdpzycho]

if diodes are active then why are there passive and active mixers? passive and active rectifiers?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_rectification

a paper from NASA comparing Passive Rectification (just diodes) to Active Rectification (MOSFET switches):
http://gltrs.grc.nasa.gov/reports/2006/TM-2006-214045.pdf

and the use of Synchronous Rectifiers (active switches) to improve SMPS efficiency:
http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-173510281975580/unrestricted/chapter2.pdf

[rdpzycho]

passive and active mixers:
http://www.mhprofessional.com/downloads/products/0071544526/SayreCh07.pdf

Chapter 7 of the book Complete Wireless Design by Cotter W. Sayre

[webscatter]

I also stated that and would agree.

When the moment u understand how it works, deal with it so many times...then u will find that there is something more to discover....

Remove Diode from where it is involved to any circuits.....

Device Properties......
PASSIVES:
Resistor holds current opposition
Capacitor and Coils holds frequency opposition
Transformer holds Transformation

ACTIVE:
Diodes holds rectification  
Transistor holds amplification


Diode?
Ginawang PASSIVE dhil 1 thing ay 2-terminal lang cya?

[zer0w1ng]

did I? don't think so.....

By deductive scientific reasoning and by definition, you had agreed by saying the gain is negative (power loss).

Diodes does not increase power gain.
In fact it halves the power by rectification and even lesser because of its 0.7V drop.

The definition stated above is VERY CLEAR. 
I don't understand why it is very difficult to comprehend.
Unless there is another definition of passivity.

[rdpzycho]

When the moment u understand how it works, deal with it so many times...then u will find that there is something more to discover....

Remove Diode from where it is involved to any circuits.....

Device Properties......
PASSIVES:
Resistor holds current opposition
Capacitor and Coils holds frequency opposition
Transformer holds Transformation

ACTIVE:
Diodes holds rectification 
Transistor holds amplification


Diode?
Ginawang PASSIVE dhil 1 thing ay 2-terminal lang cya?

I've been using diodes in their non-linear region (mixers), not just as rectifiers. take a look at the NASA paper, diode rectification is passive. hindi dahil two terminal device siya, dahil 'di niya kailangan ng additional source to do its function.

then not all diodes are passive. most RF diodes are active. PIN and Varactors will require a control voltage. tunnel diodes can amplify in its negative resistance region with the addition of DC supply through a RF choke.

the argument was only establishing a diode's function and linearity, not its passivity since the argument only stated the difference between what you consider as passives, RLC and the big difference to the diode's function.

as what Rod Elliott of sound.westhost.com said, Diodes are passive but is a special case. and as what Paul Horowitz said, Diodes are nonlinear passive element.

Linearity is different from Passivity and also different to Time Variance. Memristors, which is considered the 4th fundamental passive device, is both Non Linear and Time Variant.

Passivity is no where defined in the arguments, just linearity or a comparison of function, hence, part of the reasoning is flawed as there was no established point what would define a passive and active device. parang ganito, merong 4 na lalake na papasok ng CR, 'yung isa gay. different ang sexual orientation niya dun sa 3, sa CR ba siya dapat ng babae pumasok? kahit na clearly different 'yung gay sa 3 lalake, dahil meron tayong clear rule na 'yung gay is still considered a male, sa CR pa rin siya ng lalake dapat pumasok. ngayon kung mae-establish natin na ang pwede lang pumasok sa Passive Device is RLC, then pwedeng ilabas 'yung diode. pero ang nae-establish lang sa argument ay 'yung difference in function as I stated above. mostly, it's all about linearity, not passivity.

[pENdot]

magandang topic ito sana pero ang hirap at kakatamad magbasa

[danny]