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Author Topic: 220VAC or 230VAC ba talaga line voltage?  (Read 3901 times)
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« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2010, 07:33:39 PM »

Eto, simpleng explanation na.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/magnetic/transf.html
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« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2010, 07:33:39 PM »

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« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2010, 07:43:25 PM »

@mod glenjoy

may kumukontra ba sa sinasatsat mo?




O ayan ang equation, pag-aralan nyo ah, para naman may laman ang usapan dito.

Ang reference, wikipedia, madali na yan intindihin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule


nakaabot na po sa page 3 ang thread na to sis kaya may laman na rin kahit papaano po

salamas sa link mo kapatid at ng may mapagaralan ung mga ndi pa nakaabot sa araling katulad ng post mo

mabuhay ka kapatid
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« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2010, 07:43:25 PM »

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« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2010, 11:58:20 PM »

That only a conversion of units of energy. like newtons 3rd law of motion "IF THERE IS AN ACTION IT HAS AN EQUIVALENT OR OPOSITE REACTION" it means that any energy from the one side is equivalent from the other side, example is transformer.
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« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2010, 11:58:20 PM »

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« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2010, 12:14:47 AM »


depende po sa pagkakagawa ung stepdown na commercial na ginagamit natin sa haws sir

try mo to sis sa x4mer mo na stepdown

baliktarin mo- isaksak mo sa 220 volts ung output (110vac)
ano masusukat mo?

ung x4mer sa poste ba pag isinaksak mo ung sec nun sa 220 vac ay magkakaroon ng mga 18 kv?

hehehehe


i think that i am also qualified to answer this question since i was able to teach Energy Conversion for 5 years. and i am very familiar with transformer rewinding, transformer design kasama na yung Pole Pig ( transformer sa poste ).

If you put 220 Volts on the secondary winding of the Pole Pig it will generate 18,000 Volts on its primary line. Pero bababa naman ang current mo on the primary winding. From 45.45 Amperes it will become 0.55555 Amperes on the 18,000 Volt winding. As you can see, if you step-up the voltage you would step-down the current by the same amount.

If you step-up the voltage 100 times, you would step-down the current by 100 times also. Because of the Law of Conservation of Energy. "energy cannot be created nor destroyed, it can only be transformed". obviously, in the case of transformer, we are just changing the voltage or current but we are not generating power.

If you ever create a transformer that would step-up the voltage and step-up the current at the same time it will be called as a Generator not a transformer anymore.

Sa ideal pole pig transformer in step-down configuration Pinput is equal to Poutput. if you have a 10 KW transformer operating at 18KV primary and 220V secondary ( Step-Down configuration )

Primary voltage = 18,0000 Volts                    Secondary voltage = 220 Volts
Primary current =  0.555555 Amperes             Secondary current = 45.45 Amperes
Primary power  =  10KW                               Secondary power = 10KW
                            

Pinput =  Pri. voltage divided by Pri. Current    Pout = Sec. Voltage divided by Sec. Current


in step up configuration you just reverse the position. Put your 220 Volts in the Secondary and get your output on the primary line. Same figures pa rin. baliktad lang ang position ng input at output mo. In transformer terminology; we designate the winding where you put your voltage source as the Primary and the winding where you get your output as the secondary.

Primary voltage = 220 Volts                              Secondary voltage = 18,0000 Volts                  
Primary current = 45.45 Amperes                       Secondary current =  0.555555 Amperes
Primary power  =  10KW                                   Secondary power = 10KW            

Pout = Sec. Voltage divided by Sec. Current        Pinput =  Pri. voltage divided by Pri. Current  


As you can see in an ideal transformer; Power input is equal to Power output in real life Power output is less than Power input because yung ibang Power input mo is converted into Heat Energy ( I2R Loss ), Core Loss, Hysteresis Loss etc.
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« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2010, 12:24:55 AM »

ung x4mer sa poste ba pag isinaksak mo ung sec nun sa 220 vac ay magkakaroon ng mga 18 kv?


yes.

kapag gumagawa tayo ng transformer, wala namang pinagkaiba ang step UP at step DOWN dahil iisa lang sila at pwedeng pagbaliktarin. ang mahalaga ay 'yung resultant Voltage per Turn ratio sa isang side para hindi mag-saturate 'yung core. kapag saturated ang core, para ka lang nag-wind sa hangin or Air-Core at hindi siya buong transformer.

try mo to sis sa x4mer mo na stepdown

baliktarin mo- isaksak mo sa 220 volts ung output (110vac)
ano masusukat mo?


ang argumento dito ay hindi 440V ang masusukat sa primary. kaya lalabas na mali na naman ang theory.

bakit hindi 440V ang lalabas? naka-design kasi 'yung 110V secondary side sa 110V. kapag tumaas sa 110V 'yung boltahe doon sa secondary, papasok na sa saturation 'yung transformer at hindi na talaga siya buong transformer.

subukan ko bukas i-demonstrate sa simple experiment ng 2 transformer.

alam ko rin merong post si Mhavskie na ginamit 'yung step DOWN transformer para i-step UP 'yung galing sa baterya niya at pailawin 'yung flourescent bulb.

http://www.electronicslab.ph/forum/index.php/topic,11189.0.html

yung secondary mo 220 and primary is 18kv? pag binaliktad mo makakakuha ka ng 18kv na output? kung gayon bk marami ng gumawa nun he he he he.i wonder?


hindi rin practical gawin 'yan. kaya ginawang mataas 'yung pinanggalingan at pababa ng pababa, dahil mas maliit ang kuryente na kailangan sa mataas na boltahe sa parehas na power. kawawa 'yung 220V source kapag malaki na ang kailangang power.

pero merong gumagawa niyan, 'yung mga mahihilig sa Tesla Coil.
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« Reply #45 on: March 10, 2010, 12:30:57 AM »

he he he he sir totoo ba yun? yung secondary mo 220 and primary is 18kv? pag binaliktad mo makakakuha ka ng 18kv na output? kung gayon bk marami ng gumawa nun he he he he.i wonder? tanong ko kaya ito sa bagong post ko? magandang example ito sa theory vs actaul he he he he ano sa tingin mo sir marami kaya mag react?


yes because transformers are reversible. the question is ano naman ang gagawin mo sa 18,000 Volts. Are you thinking na nakakuha ka ng Free Energy or something kapag na-step up mo ang 220 Volts sa 18,000 Volts ? if your answer is YES, then you need to learn more about the Law of Conservation of Energy and basic electricity. for further reading see this http://www.electronicslab.ph/forum/index.php/topic,15723.msg277662.html#msg277662
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« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2010, 12:46:20 AM »

ung sinasabi mo na stepdown x4mer na gamit natin sa mga haws sis ay dumedepende po yan sa input voltage

ndi nga tataas sa pinagsaksakan mo ang boltahe nyan kahit alang load

pero iba po ung sa x4mer sa poste, mataas po na voltage ang pinagkukunan nun

d2 sa province ay dalawa ang wire na pinagkukunan

isang 18kv at 34 kv

ung sa 18 kv ang sa mga x4mer sa poste at yung 34 ay para dun sa mga industrial x4mer




transformers wether yung pang audio, pang power supply or pang poste they have what we call as:

VNL = Voltage under No Load Conditions
VFL = Voltage under Full Load Conditions

obviously VNL is higher than VFL. Ang high quality na transformer magkakaroon yan ng VNL at VFL na very close ang value. Ang low quailty na transformer ay magkakaroon ng VNL at VFL na malayo ang value. it means na kapag walang load ang low quality tranformer masyadong mataas ang voltage niya at kapag marami namang load ay mababa ang voltage niya.


may tinatawag tayo na Per Cent Regulation sa transformer design. sa madaling salita eto yung nagsasabi kung may tendency ang transformer na tumaas ang voltahe kapag walang load at eto rin ang nagsasabi kung may tendency ang tranformer na bumaba ang voltahe kapag marami kang load.

% Reg = ( VNL - VFL ) divided by VFL

mas mababa ang value; mas mataas ang kalidad ng transformer. kung mayroon kayong fluctuation sa voltahe sa inyong lugar, ang isang dahilan diyan ay ang paglagay ng sub-standard na transformer.
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« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2010, 02:09:24 AM »

i think that i am also qualified to answer this question since i was able to teach Energy Conversion for 5 years. and i am very familiar with transformer rewinding, transformer design kasama na yung Pole Pig ( transformer sa poste ).

If you put 220 Volts on the secondary winding of the Pole Pig it will generate 18,000 Volts on its primary line. Pero bababa naman ang current mo on the primary winding. From 45.45 Amperes it will become 0.55555 Amperes on the 18,000 Volt winding. As you can see, if you step-up the voltage you would step-down the current by the same amount.

If you step-up the voltage 100 times, you would step-down the current by 100 times also. Because of the Law of Conservation of Energy. "energy cannot be created nor destroyed, it can only be transformed". obviously, in the case of transformer, we are just changing the voltage or current but we are not generating power.

If you ever create a transformer that would step-up the voltage and step-up the current at the same time it will be called as a Generator not a transformer anymore.

Sa ideal pole pig transformer in step-down configuration Pinput is equal to Poutput. if you have a 10 KW transformer operating at 18KV primary and 220V secondary ( Step-Down configuration )

Primary voltage = 18,0000 Volts                    Secondary voltage = 220 Volts
Primary current =  0.555555 Amperes             Secondary current = 45.45 Amperes
Primary power  =  10KW                               Secondary power = 10KW
                           

Pinput =  Pri. voltage divided by Pri. Current    Pout = Sec. Voltage divided by Sec. Current


in step up configuration you just reverse the position. Put your 220 Volts in the Secondary and get your output on the primary line. Same figures pa rin. baliktad lang ang position ng input at output mo. In transformer terminology; we designate the winding where you put your voltage source as the Primary and the winding where you get your output as the secondary.

Primary voltage = 220 Volts                              Secondary voltage = 18,0000 Volts                   
Primary current = 45.45 Amperes                       Secondary current =  0.555555 Amperes
Primary power  =  10KW                                   Secondary power = 10KW             

Pout = Sec. Voltage divided by Sec. Current        Pinput =  Pri. voltage divided by Pri. Current   


As you can see in an ideal transformer; Power input is equal to Power output in real life Power output is less than Power input because yung ibang Power input mo is converted into Heat Energy ( I2R Loss ), Core Loss, Hysteresis Loss etc.

yup, agree po ako diyan.

transformer is reversable, it's either in step-up or step-down purposes.
and, Power Primary Winding = Power Secondary Winding.
kung step-up o step-down ang transformer mo current at voltage lang ang magbabago dito.
but, power is constant.
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« Reply #48 on: March 10, 2010, 06:00:22 AM »

Quote
As you can see in an ideal transformer; Power input is equal to Power output in real life Power output is less than Power input because yung ibang Power input mo is converted into Heat Energy ( I2R Loss ), Core Loss, Hysteresis Loss etc.

Nyahahahaha!
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« Reply #49 on: March 10, 2010, 06:11:01 AM »

Kung pwede lang nga makontra ang libro ni CHarles Siskind ano? Ilang generation na bang Electrical, Mechanical at Electronics Engineer ang naturuan ng libro na yun?

Baka may gusto pang kumontra sa Faraday's Law, na basis ng design ng transformer, MALI ang Faraday's Law, nyahahahahaha!

Putsa naman oo!
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« Reply #50 on: March 10, 2010, 07:31:34 AM »

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« Reply #51 on: March 10, 2010, 08:29:48 AM »

Quote
salamat sa mga tugon nyo mga master

binasa ko paulit ulit ang thread na to at ala naman akong nakikita na sumasalungat sa mga pinagaralan nating libro.


Yeah right.

Quote
@glenjoy
parang may kalaban ka d2 sa thread ah
pls iwasan ang paghahamon at ung salitang putsa na inislang mo lang kapatid
wag ka sanang masaktan sa tinuran ko na ito

Bakit may problema ka ba sa pagreply ko?
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« Reply #52 on: March 10, 2010, 01:01:49 PM »

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ang PANLALAIT sa kapwa ay isang kasalanan na
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« Reply #53 on: March 10, 2010, 01:38:11 PM »

yes because transformers are reversible. the question is ano naman ang gagawin mo sa 18,000 Volts. Are you thinking na nakakuha ka ng Free Energy or something kapag na-step up mo ang 220 Volts sa 18,000 Volts ? if your answer is YES, then.....

sis pwede sa fly killer  Grin Grin Grin kaso sobrang tustado sya hehe  Grin
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« Reply #54 on: March 10, 2010, 01:48:18 PM »

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ang PANLALAIT sa kapwa ay isang kasalanan na
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« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2010, 02:59:48 PM »

 Wink ok nga yan kung kaya mo lang supplayan ng enough power un distribution transformer..ikaw pa ngaun maniningil sa meralco.. kailangan natin yan lalo na pag brown out.  pero kung hindi kaya.  siguruhin mo may transfer switch or double throw ka sa main para di mo na msupplyana ang distribution bago ka  mag start ng generator mo pag brown out.

sa ibang bansa nga ung farm nila kinonvert na to produce power by solar ,sa germany madami. kumikita sila dun kesa sa gulay Smiley

peace man!
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« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2010, 03:34:47 PM »


ung sinasabi mo na stepdown x4mer na gamit natin sa mga haws sis ay dumedepende po yan sa input voltage

ndi nga tataas sa pinagsaksakan mo ang boltahe nyan kahit alang load

pero iba po ung sa x4mer sa poste, mataas po na voltage ang pinagkukunan nun

d2 sa province ay dalawa ang wire na pinagkukunan

isang 18kv at 34 kv

ung sa 18 kv ang sa mga x4mer sa poste at yung 34 ay para dun sa mga industrial x4mer


dito po ba sa atin yang 18kv at 34kv na boltahe sa poste? saang lugar po ito?


@ TS

ang transco po ay allowed ng +/-10% na voltage variation, may manual on-load tap changer po yong distribution transformer nila, meaning they can step-up or step-down their distribution voltage output  to maintain the +/-10% voltage variation (ideal distribution voltage nila ay 69kv).

sa mga cooperatives or power distributors naman kadalasan sa mga distribution transformer nila ay no-load-tap-changer ang nakalagay, kaya naka-fixed na ito (usually set during energization) pero pwede rin e step-up o step-down yong boltahe ng distribution nila pero kailangan pang e out muna ang mga load at e shut-down ang transformer bago ito ma change-tap  (up or down).

so expect na talaga kayo na pwedeng mag vary yong voltage nyo @ +/-10%.

220Vac or 230Vac tayo?

sa pagkakaalam ko 220Vac tayo pero sa ngayon nakasaad na sa PEC na 230Vac na tayo.

so expect kayo either 220Vac +/-10% ang boltahe ninyo or 230 +/-10% ito.

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« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2010, 07:47:34 PM »

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« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2010, 09:07:41 PM »

tsk nakgainitan pala dito, hehehe
iwas na lang po sa mga insulting posts, tsaka dapat lagi cool lang mga sirs Smiley
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« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2010, 09:22:07 PM »

d2 po yan sis sa ilang bahagi ng pangasinan

3 o 4 yata na electric generation plant ang nagsusuply sa pangasinan

tulad nga ng unang post ko d2 na minsan ay tumaas ang line voltage at umabot sa 155 - 165vac kaya inayus at pinalitan ang trans4mer sa poste

dati ang electronics center ko ay malapit sa isang  commercial bldg
may sariling trans4mer ang bldg at dun naikabit ng lineman ang service drop ko
ang nangyari ay umaabot ng 246 vac ang linya ng shop ko sa umaga at kaunti palang ang gumagamit ng kuryente sa bldg
yan po ang naranasan ko sa katotohanang pangyayari at ndi lang kwentong barbero or kopya sa isang libro

I-reklamo mo to sa ERC as violation of the Certificate of Public Convenience and Necessity.
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